Debated throughout high school and college. Qualified/Went to nationals seven of those eight years. I have been coaching for three years. The paradigm is a living document. I prefer to answer questions at the beginning of the round if there are any.

A bit of my background. I am a full professor of communication at Southeastern Oklahoma State University. I am also the Director of Forensics. The forensics team at Southeastern is a comprehensive speech and debate team competing in both individual speaking and both individual and team debate events. The types and formats of debate in college have different titles than those in high school, yet the goal is still the same – to have the judge vote in your favor. Note...I'm writing this paradigm for both audiences since I do volunteer judge throughout the year at Regional and State high school tournaments in Texas and Oklahoma. Back to my paradigm, debate provides a venue for hypothesis testing. In debate, a proposition or resolution is given provisional acceptance and through argumentation it is determined whether acceptance should continue or should be rejected after thorough reasoning. Whichever individual or team is successful in convincing the judge that its test of the proposition or resolution is accurate, “wins” the debate.

With that being said, in general, I consider myself a traditional judge. Let me explain...the more rhetorically agile debaters, more criterion-based arguments, and more acute rebuttals and refutations are the types of arguments that I seem to be most persuaded or convinced by. I believe all is fair in love and war, so I don't mind debaters using more progressive debate tactics. Yet, I suppose this should be for every debate round judge, but I know it is not. More technically speaking, though, I strongly believe in the fundamentals of “debate,” like I explain above. Thus, the affirmative has the burden of proof based on the stasis issues which are determined through the wording of the proposition or resolution. Like most decision-makers, the better you define and clearly articulate the stock issues and argue persuasively for them, the better and more organically a decision seems to materialize for me. I find it most helpful when a value criterion has been clearly defined and continually reinforced throughout the debate round. I often say, "make it stupid...simple," On the flip side, the negative has the burden of rejoinder. I believe it is crucial to the negative's case construction to refute all arguments offered by the affirmative from their constructive. Dropped arguments will be given to the opposition. In my experience, during a debate, the round crystalizes, and some arguments gain more traction than others, however if the negative has come to agree with a perspective advocated for by the affirmative, its better, in my mind, to acknowledge that has indeed happened and use it as an opportunity to employee the refutation strategies of minimizing or outweighing.

Lastly, I do seem to value counter plans introduced by the negative as well, when appropriate and well-argued, mainly because I'm of the opinion that a good offense always overtakes a good defense. I will flow the round, mainly because it helps me to stay engaged yet I do not consider myself a flow judge - I do not simply make decisions based on the flow.

So, in sum, I look strongly at the ethics of the case and the philosophy that is behind it, especially when it comes to the value structure. I DO NOT look highly upon spreading, most people cannot follow spreading, and debaters have a moral obligation to create an inviting space for educational dialogue. However, unlike some other traditional judges, I do enjoy counterplan arguments and kritik.

Name: Jeff Geers

School Affiliation: University of Dayton

Number of Years Judging Public Forum: ~18

Number of Years Competing in Public Forum: 0

Number of Years Judging Other Forensic Activities: ~18

Number of Years Competing in Other Forensic Activities: 0

If you are a coach, what events do you coach? Public Forum, Extemporaneous Debate, Policy

What is your current occupation? Instructor, Debate Coach

Please share your opinions or beliefs about how the following play into a debate round:

Speed of Delivery - I like to hear a dynamic, energetic speaking style, but this isn't an auctioneer tryout; take your time and clearly present your points

Flowing/Note-Taking - While I might be flowing your argument in my notes, I'm listening for the clash of opposing 'big ideas' - My final decision in the round is based more on who convinced me overall, not whether any one specific point was addressed or not.

Do you value Argument over Style, Style over Argument or Argument and Style equally? Both are important, but in the end a clear, cogent argument will win out over charismatic but superficial debating.

I value creativity in critical thinking, and like to see new and different approaches to issues. However, squirrel-y attempts to trap opponents with non-topical distractions put me in a bad mood...

Recent Graduate and current Vanderbilt Coach; Debated for Vanderbilt 2014-16 (Novice, JV, and Open)

Email chain is usually easiest and most efficient, so use gavin.p.gill@vanderbilt.edu to add me to the chain.

As you can tell from the above description, It's been a few years since I've been in the policy world, so bear that in mind if you're planning on spreading up a storm. When I debated, I could flow with the fastest of them, but I wouldn't count on my ability to track your unwritten analytic arguments in your case at 400 words per minute. That being said, I will always do the utmost to follow everything, and I will shout "clear" if you exceed my rusted limits.

Another important caveat: I currently coach for Vandy with my main focus on developing its new parliamentary team. I've read up on the topic briefly, but don't expect me to be an expert on the acronyms that tend to emerge throughout the year. Expand them the first time you use them, and I am amenable to their use thereafter.

Onto the fun stuff:

I, in somewhat classic Vanderbilt style, mostly utilized policy arguments. While I enjoyed K's on the Neg, I only ran 1 K-Aff as a 2N during my time in college, so be aware of my potential limits in terms of familiarity with the literature. I prefer topical plans, but am adaptive depending on the round. Remember: it's your job to frame the round and explain how I should vote. Do your work to that end in defining and defending, and I'll vote accordingly. If you're running a nontraditional Aff, you'd better explain why I should believe you should win. Make arguments, not mere assertions, that effectively determine the role of the debaters, judge, and the space/round if you want your case to survive.

On Topicality: I love T debates. This is definitely a gatekeeping issue in terms of fairness and the purpose of the debate round, so it should be covered effectively if you're going to go for it. Again, don't waste anybody's time with assertions that lack impact or warrants, as shadow extending a T-Shell is likely not going to do you any favors. Develop and flesh out the debate, as I never have a de facto vote. That being said, I'm sympathetic to fairness arguments so long as they are well made, expanded, impacted, and interacted with the other team's defense. Do your work, or else it's a throwaway argument.

Case/DA's: Specificity is preferred to generality, the argument is only as strong as the link chain, I'm sympathetic to interpretations of probability when evidence supports it, and I need work done on how to weigh the arguments and why if you expect me to vote on them.

CP's: A great tool with a potential for abuse. Conditionality is cool, so long as you don't run too many. My sympathy to the aff's claims of abuse increase with the number of conditional counterplans, so you should have proportional defense if you're running multiple conditional CP's. I will always vote on a fair permutation if the neg can't prove unique net benefits.

Kritiks: I'll admit, I enjoy a really well done K. I like to think I'm decently well-versed in the literature, but I'm not an expert on every esoteric academic out there, and I require a fair degree of work on interpretations and framework if you're going this route. I will say that splitting a Neg in a way where the work on the K assumes a moral high ground that also attacks your other arguments leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but it's not impossible for me to vote for it if the other team doesn't explain why this is bad/unfair/whatever. As noted in the rest of my paradigm, do your work whatever your side, and I'll vote according to what happens in the round.

Framework: The bedrock of the debate. Two teams with radically different frameworks need to clash to define the round with well impacted arguments. Don't just assert your framework is better, or you'll leave it up to my preferences which might not be in your favor (and certainly aren't great for me to impose as a judge, in my view).

So, I hope it's clear that I'm game for whatever you bring to the round, but you'd better bring it. You don't win without clear and effective clash and framing, and I'm happy to vote for whomever does what is necessary to clash well, fairly, and with proper work done in the round.

Good luck, have fun, and enjoy the sport.

Michigan '21

Westminster '17

Add me to the email chain- thelasthall@gmail.com

*PF Version

I debated & judged in Policy for about 10 years- this is the first time I have experienced Public Forum debate. Please bear with me as I learn the procedures and rules.

I value well-reasoned arguments that can account for, overcome or dismiss the opponents' arguments. Evidence/cards are good, but need to be explained within the context of your argument.

I'm fine with speed, as long as I can understand what you're saying. Flowing/note-taking is good, I will be doing it. Argument wins debates, style is fun.

I will enter all debates with an unbiased perspective on the arguments.

* Policy Version

NDCA Update

I am the judge to read risky arguments in front of. Some arguments I miss hearing and weirdly have a lot of experience with: dedev, co2 good, anthro, buddhism, t substantial (Neg: do the math, Aff: say math is arbitrary), International fiat. Maybe someone reads Malthus. Keep it interesting.

But there's a caveat. Here are some arguments I never understood and would rather not judge: Heg Bad, Courts Disads, the generic Security K, high food prices good/bad. Basically anything relating to IR...

Read what you want, just don't be rude. Plan or no plan, just win it, champ. I've gone for most arguments. I like bold strategies (think 8 minutes of politics, or just an impact turn, etc.)

Teams can win either side of Framework in front of me. I've read plans (most years), I've read no plan (2 years). That said, my voting record might show a bit of Neg leaning on Framework. Affs trying to beat that: win the TVA is bad and doesn't solve your offense, win the impact debate.

While I hope nobody prefs me, I'm a good* judge for nearly anything.

- *I don't like to use my noggin very much, so go for the easy win. I prefer teams going for the path of least resistance than necessarily taking the core of their arguments head-on (I'd rather judge a pic than a big deterrence good/bad debate). But if that's your thing, then by all means.

General Notes

- I'm very flow-centric. Dropped arg is true, but you gotta give me some semblance of a warrant for it to actually matter. I'm not big on judge intervention, but keep in mind that if neither team explains how I should evaluate some arguments/their implications, I'm probably gonna have to sort that out myself.

- Don't be mean to your partner or opponents.

- I don't know what the high school resolution is, and won't know beyond a surface understanding. Don't make assumptions about community consensus or acronym usage.

Theory

- Win your impact outweighs/turns theirs, and deal with the line-by-line.

- I want to reject the argument, not the team for all theory except Conditionality.

- I lean Neg instinctually on all theory, but, again, if you win I should vote Aff on Conditions CPs bad, then you win. Shooting your shot won't affect your speaks too, if there was good reason to do so.

- Perms are tests of competitions - don't advocate the perm in the 2AR unless they've dropped a normal means argument or something and it's actually useful.

CPs

- Goes hand-in-hand with theory, I never liked judges imposing their own views here. If you win it's legit, then it's legit.

- I've always been a big fan of the CP/DA 2nr. I almost always recommend that over DA/Case.

- I always view a CP through sufficiency framing. If the Neg wins that the CP solves most of the Aff, and that the net benefit outweighs the small risk/impact of a solvency deficit, I vote Neg.

- For the Aff, make all the arguments in the 2AC. Links to net benefit, perms, solvency deficits, etc etc. I know I said I'm Neg on theory, but I also will vote Aff on an intrinsic perm if the Neg fails to win that intrinsicness is bad. To beat sufficiency framing, you've gotta really explain and impact the solvency deficit - why is this more important than the net benefit?

Disads

- Usually filter it through the link primarily, but obviously uniqueness is important too.

- Impact calc is huge, especially turns case.

K (read: Planless) Affs

- I'm pretty familiar with most of the lit/arguments read in these debates.

- Framework isn't an auto-ballot for me. Neither is framework-bad.

- Teams should establish and win why I should give them the ballot.

Ks on the Neg

- Please don't just read pre-scripted blocks. This applies to all arguments, but I see it most frequently with these debates. I don't like big overviews because they incentivize teams to forego line-by-line debating.

- Whatever your big piece of offense is, explain why it matters. If you win framework, what does that mean for the rest of the flow? Same for the links.

- I'm not a great judge for Ks that rely on framework for winning. It's really hard to convince me not to weigh representations/assumptions in the context of the plan. I also rarely hear solid explanations for what it means for the Neg to win framework, and how that implicates the rest of the debate. If I can, I will deprioritize framework in my decision

- Link debating is also really important. Specific lines from 1AC cards will go a lot farther than generic reform-bad links. If possible, every link should have its own impact.

- I think Affs should get perms. Just like with a CP, the perm means the Neg has to prove exclusivity.

- I don't know what the word "Semiotics" means.

- If you read the Lanza card and give a warrant, I'll give you +.2 speaker points.

Ks on the Neg vs K Affs

- I will probably vote Aff on the perm. Obviously this depends on how the debating happens (including what the links and alt are), but this is my first instinct. Neg needs to win exclusivity.

- If the Neg wins that the Aff shouldn't get perms, then there ya go. But I hope the Aff can actually debate why they should get perms because I want to vote Aff on the perm.

- I don't like authenticity testing. There are always competitive incentives in debate that at least play some role.

Framework

- First, win why your impacts outweigh theirs.

- TVA is really useful for dealing with a lot of Aff offense, as are switch side, ballot not key, and whatever other tricks you got up your sleeve.

- Fairness can be an impact, it can not be an impact. Up to how the debate goes down. If you wanna win fairness as a terminal impact, you gotta be heavy on explaining that and why I should care.

T

- Been a while since I threw down on T. See earlier note- I don't know this resolution.

- Be clear about what the topic looks like under your interpretation.

- Neg needs a caselist, clear interpretation and violation, and most importantly: impact work.

- I've never understood the requirements for an Aff to beat T. If you win We Meet, then you don't need to win a counter-interpretation. If you win overlimiting, you also have to win why that's more important than the Neg's impacts.

I started judging my two kids' speech and debate tournaments in high school. I judge IE's, LD, and Policy. And have continued judging these tournaments after my kids moved on to college.

I prefer that you speak loud and clearly. However I do not have a preference on speed. You may flow as fast or slow as you see fit.

Simply, debate is a very fun game that I used to play and enjoy watching. Do what you do best. I will vote for you if I think you win. And please be nice to your opponents.

As far as preconceived notions of debate go, here are a few of mine:

(1) I think the topic should be debated.

(2) I enjoy case debates and plan specific counterplans.

(3) I usually don't have speech docs open during the debate so your clarity is important to me.

Competed in: BP, CX, PF

Judged: BP, Civic, CX, LD, PF

Currently an Assistant Coach @ Vanderbilt

email chain: Brandon.M.James@vanderbilt.edu

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If you see me in the back of the room, then that probably means that I am essentially being paid to listen to you speak and adjudicate a round based on the arguments you’ve made. To me, part of that duty requires keeping an open mind. I’ve run, debated against, and judged a variety of events and argument styles. Absent any behavior that negatively impacts my ability to get paid or my ability to foster an inclusive environment, I don’t particularly care what you run or how you debate.

With that said, to make things easier for all of us, here are some things to keep in mind:

Topic Knowledge: I’m more of a “team judge” than a “team coach”. I likely haven’t done a lot of research on whatever topic you’re speaking about, so I won’t know what each acronym means or instantly recall what each card you read says. Try to explain terms that may not be intuitive, and if you’re extending evidence be clear about what you’re extending.

Kritikal Knowledge: I spent the most involved portion of my debate career running Kritikal Affs/Negs about antiblackness against some combination of framework, a policy advocacy, and a capitalism kritik. This isn’t an invitation to run these arguments or me saying that I am happy with less explanation in these debates, but it is to say that I probably feel at “home” here and understand the terminology. For K’s outside of this domain you shouldn’t assume I’m as familiar with the literature as you are.

Non-Traditional Argumentation: In general, the further you stray from the norms/expectations of the activity you’re participating in, the stronger your justifications for those shifts need to be. I have no problem listening to these arguments, but also have no problem listening to how these arguments may be bad for fairness or education, particularly when the rationale for these arguments being run is weak.

Delivery: You should be going at a speed at which the slowest flower involved in the debate can understand, and a volume at which everyone involved at the debate is comfortable. If I ask you to change how you’re speaking, it won’t impact your speaks unless you seem to continuously refuse.

Specific Issues:

1. I’m a believer in the idea that ridiculous arguments require minimal responses. This doesn’t mean I won’t vote on your trolly argument or sneaky trick, but it does mean that the bar for a substantive response is lower here. If you’re stomping on the flow here or need a Hail Mary, feel free to go for it, but if there’s at least decent engagement here please look elsewhere.

2. I have a tendency to vote against teams who fail to actually describe what they defend, even when they may be more technically proficient. Trying to dodge every cross-ex question or refusing to say what you advocate for so you won’t “link” to things is lazy to me and creates bad debates.

3. Do not force me to listen to a definition debate where the two terms are not meaningfully different, or a debate about a trivial distinction/clarification point. A pointless debate somehow becoming a sticking point of the round is probably the pettiest reason I will drop speaker points.

Accommodations: Please let me/the competitors know how we can make this space more accessible, as soon as possible.

RFDs: My RFD style is very conversational. I will walk you through my decision while also highlighting any issues/confusions I had during the debate. I may ask you questions about why certain choices were made in the debate, even if they aren’t directly related to my decision, if I think they could be issues in other rounds. If you have questions you should ask them. If I’m not making sense you should tell me so. You’ve given up an hour or more of your time, so you should leave the room feeling like you know why I voted how I did.

Hi folks - my pronouns are She/Her and you can call me Hunter.

I got my undergraduate degree in communication from California State University, Fresno, and I'm currently finishing my MA in communication studies at California State University, Northridge, where I worked as a teaching associate and helped coach forensics from Fall 2020 to Spring 2022.

I debated open policy for Fresno State and was a K debater. Although my partner and I primarily ran fem theory arguments, I'm familiar with both critical and policy arguments and will vote for either. I have experience coaching and judging LD in Fall 2020/Spring 2021 as well as IPDA Fall 2020/Spring 2021 and CPFL Fall 2021/Spring 2022/Fall 2022/Spring 2023 for CSUN and will be coaching CPFL and judging for Fresno City starting in Fall of 2023.

In general, signposting during speeches should be clear (especially via a digital platform). I trust that you all can manage your own speech + prep time. I do flow the rounds + CX regardless of whether it's IPDA debate, policy debate, public forum, etc.

Also, I tend to have a pretty straight face during the round and will likely be looking at my flow sheet on my laptop and not at the monitor where my cam is if things occur virtually. Don't take my facial expressions (or lack thereof) as any indication of my thoughts on the round. I'm just focused on flowing your arguments. The same goes for in-person rounds.

Some additional important info:

I think how you treat one another in round is important. There's a difference between confidence in your arguments and being disrespectful to another competitor. That being said, just be respectful to each other. Policy debate (and debate in general -- LD, IPDA, PoFo/CPFL, etc.) is stressful enough as is; no one needs to add to that stress by being rude, disrespectful, etc. Also, I won't tolerate anything discriminatory. What you say + how you say it matters.

My email is huntsans03@gmail.com and I would prefer to be on the email chain. Also, please use an email chain and not speech drop.

Public Forum Paradigm:

Please send your speech docs to me and the other team. It makes flowing easier via a digital platform and evidence exchange is good practice (it's also encouraged in the CPFL Policies and Procedures under section 3.4 Evidence Exchange Expectations).

Speed of Delivery: I do not think public forum debaters should be spreading like policy. You can speak quickly or with a sense of urgency, but I think part of the emphasis of public forum is its accessibility for a variety of experience levels. As such, the rate of delivery can be quick but should allow the judge(s)/audience members to follow along without extensive debate experience.

Timing: You should time yourself. I'd encourage you to time all the speeches, truthfully. It'll help the round stay on track (and the tournament as a whole) if we're efficient with our time together in round.

Evidence: You should cite your evidence adequately and clearly according to the CPFL Policies and Procedures Evidence Norms and Evidence Exchange Expectations (available here: https://www.collegepublicforum.org/procedures). I would prefer a bit more than the author name and year of publication (perhaps a quick statement of author credentials), but I know time is short so at the very least have name/year. Please, please, please cite your evidence. I'm all for analytic arguments, but they should not make up the bulk of your speech time in the constructive and/or rebuttal speeches. Incorporate evidence and cite it throughout the round. During the summary and final focus, cross-apply earlier evidence to your arguments ("[insert argument]. This is supported by [recap earlier evidence].")

Argument + Style: Style is important, but I weigh the quality and content of the argument over style. Additionally, no new arguments in the final focus, and, personally, I don't think new arguments should really be introduced in the summary unless they are a direct response to a rebuttal claim and include evidence.

Flowing: I think you should be flowing. Not only will it help you to keep track of your arguments in round and your ability to answer your opponents' arguments, but I think good flowing helps create good debaters who have a solid grasp of what's occurring in the round and the ability of debaters to weigh and prioritize arguments. I flow the entirety of the round, so you probably should too!

IPDA Paradigm:

Constructive speeches: Be sure to clearly state and cite your definitions, judging or value criterion, and sources throughout the round. If you plan on offering a counter definition(s), do so clearly and don't abandon your framing after the constructive speeches. Also be clear when stating your contentions.

Cross-Examination: This is a question and answer period, not a speech. Be clear, concise, and strategic with your questions. If you turn CX into a speech it will likely affect your speaker points.

Rebuttals: Clearly identify why you are winning the round, how you are ahead on the flow, why your framing/definitions or judging criteria are preferable, etc. You should be able to isolate one to two key reasons why you are winning the round and impact them out during these speeches + state why they are preferable to your opponent's case.

Timing: Keep track of your own speech times. I will roughly gauge the times, but you should hold yourself and your opponent accountable. If I notice that someone seems to be going over time or not timing accurately, I will step in but I'd rather not have to interrupt anyone :)

Flowing: See above in my PoFo description^

Policy Debate Paradigm:

Aff: I'm game for policy or critical affirmatives so long as you can defend them, but you shouldn't abandon your aff position after the 1AC. Run what you want, defend it, and don't abandon your case flow.

T: I think affirmatives should at least be related to the topic on some level or another. That being said, I'm all for persuasive arguments as to what is vs. isn't topical. I'm not a super strong proponent of strict, policy T shells. As long as the aff can justify why they are in the direction of the topic, I'll usually grant the interp.

FW: I'm down for FW, but it should be specific. Vague framework shells that are a stretch at applying to the aff aren't very persuasive (i.e., general "K's bad" FW shells probably won't win my ballot). However, substantive framework debates about why I should view the round a certain way are great.

DAs: Good, a pivotal part of policy debate, especially for novices. I'll vote for a disad, but be sure to explain how they link to the aff.

CPs: Same thing as DAs. I think CPs are a pivotal part of policy debate, especially for novices. CPs should have a net benefit + at least solve part of the aff.

Ks: Love critical arguments (both on the aff and the neg). However, if you run a K strictly for strat and I can tell you don't know the argument, that isn't super persuasive in my mind. If you're going to run a K, know it well. If you run a K on the neg, be able to articulate the links and the alternative. If you run a critical aff, you should be prepared to answer T/FW and be able to articulate the world of the affirmative if you win the ballot + how the aff advocacy solves.

i did PF in high school (2014-18) and coached for ~2 years after.

i have not thought about debate in the past 4 years, i don't have topic knowledge, and am not comfy with technical/theory-ish things in PF. please treat me like a flay judge! i like seeing lots of impact calc, meta/weighing throughout the round along w/ a clean narrative — doing all of these well will mean i give u high speaks (29+). i will lower speaker points for teams that are mean :(

you can wear whatever is comfortable for you in rounds. i don't believe in having to wear a suit for tournaments.

more importantly, i hope you are having a good day :)

sanjim@berkeley.edu

sophiewilczynski at gmail dot com for email chains & specific questions.

I debated for UT austin from 2014-17 & have remained tangentially affiliated with the program since. my degree is in rhetoric, and as a debater I read a lot of big structural critiques and weird impact turns.

***

tldr: I have been doing this for a while. I don't really care what you say as long as you engage it well. do what you do best, make meaningful distinctions, & don't be rude while you're at it!

clarity matters, esp in the age of virtual debate. as long as I can understand what you are saying I shouldn’t have trouble getting it down - that being said, debaters have an unfortunate tendency to overestimate their own clarity, so just something to keep in mind. slowing down on procedurals, cp/alt texts, & author names is very much appreciated.

topicality - fun if you're willing to do the work to develop them properly. I think evidence comparison is a super under-utilized resource in T debates, and a lot of good teams lose to crappy interps for this reason. as with anything else, you need to establish & justify the evaluatory framework by which you would like me to assess your impacts. have a debate, don't just blast through ur blocks

disads/CPs - fine & cool. i find that huge generic gnw/extinction scenarios often don't hold up to the scrutiny and rigor of more isolated regional scenarios. will vote on terminal defense if I have a good reason to do so. pics are usually good

K debates - make a decision about the level at which your impacts operate and stick to it. and talk about the aff. this applies to both sides. the neg should be critiquing the affirmative, not merely identifying a structure and breaking down the implications without thorough contextualization. the mechanics of the alternative & the context in which it operates have to be clearly articulated and comparatively contextualized to the mechanics of 1AC solvency. i think a lot of murky & convoluted perm debates could be avoided with greater consideration for this - impact heuristics matter a lot when establishing competition (or levels of competition). likewise, blasting through thousands of variants of "perm do x" with no warrants or comparative explanation does not mean you have made a permutation. will vote on links as case turns, but will be unhappy about it if it's done lazily.

framework - i think it's good when the aff engages the resolution, but i don't have any particularly strong feelings about how that should happen

theory - if you must

misc

case matters, use it effectively rather than reading your blocks in response to nothing

i find myself judging a lot of clash debates, which is usually cool

prep ends when doc is saved

be nice & have fun